Awakened Anesthetist

Part 2 of 2. Building a Diverse Future in the CAA Profession PROCESS ft. DEI AAAA Scholarship Winners, Ellen Fleurival, SAA and Tekiah McClary, SAA

• Season 4 • Episode 60

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In this joint PROCESS episode, 2024 DEI AAAA scholarship winners, Ellen Fleurival and Tekiah McClary, share their unique paths to become Anesthesiologist Assistant students. Together, we uncover the challenges and triumphs they’ve faced, navigating through the demands of AA school while breaking barriers in a predominantly homogenous field. Ellen and Tekiah reflect on their motivations, their resilience, and the broader themes of under representation. From overcoming application barriers to the significance of outreach efforts, their experiences underscore the power of individual actions in fostering meaningful change.

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Key Acronyms

  • DEI- Diversity, Equity, Inclusion
  • HBCU- Historically Black Colleges and Universities
  • AAAA- American Academy of Anesthesiologist Assistants
  • CAA- Certified Anesthesiologist Assistants
  • SAA- Student Anesthesiologist Assistant

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Mary Jeanne:

Welcome to the Awakened Anesthetist podcast, the first podcast to highlight the CAA experience. I'm your host, mary Jean, and I've been a certified anesthesiologist assistant for close to two decades. Throughout my journey and struggles, I've searched for guidance that includes my unique perspective as a CAA. At one of my lowest points, I decided to turn my passion for storytelling and my belief that the CAA profession is uniquely able to create a life by design into a podcast. If you are a practicing CAA, current AA student or someone who hopes to be one, I encourage you to stick around and experience the power of being in a community filled with voices who sound like yours, sharing experiences you never believed possible. I know you will find yourself here at the Awakened Anesthetist podcast. Welcome in. I'm so glad you're here for this really important episode.

Mary Jeanne:

I had the honor of interviewing the current DEI scholarship winners for 2024. And at the end of our conversation, one of them, ellen, just after we stopped recording, asked me why I had asked them to do the interview and why I was so interested in highlighting their journeys and their story. And I gave her an answer that felt true about, you know, wanting to share other CAA stories, wanting to talk to people who have different backgrounds than me, different identities than me, to learn more about what it means to be a CAA and to really deepen the connections within our community. But after I got done saying all that and got off the call with them, I've really been thinking over the course of the last month, since I spoke with Ellen and Takiyah, why it was so important for me to interview them and to have this conversation, and I can see now that this was a part of my own journey. This has been part of my own reckoning with my innate bias and intrinsic privilege as a white person, as a white woman, in this country and in the CAA profession.

Mary Jeanne:

And I wanted to do this episode because I recognize that I have room to grow and that I have things that I would like to change about myself and the default settings in my brain and this is my own work to do. This is not for anyone else, but I truly, truly want to thank Ellen and Takiyah for offering their time and offering their insights and their bravery and vulnerability to be a light for all of us. And, yeah, I'm just so appreciative and I just wanted to answer Ellen you so honestly and I hope everyone enjoys this really powerful episode. Let me introduce Ellen and Takiyah, the 2024 DEI scholarship winners. Welcome, ellen and Takiyah, to the Awakened Anesthetist. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. Let's start off with the rapid fire round. If that sounds good to both of you, sounds good.

Mary Jeanne:

Sounds awesome, awesome. All right, let's, I'll just ask you individually. So, ellen, let me see here what school are you going to and what year are you graduating?

Tekiah:

So I currently go to VCon, slash, bluefield on Auburn's campus, and I graduate next year, september 2025.

Mary Jeanne:

And.

Tekiah:

I'm currently a second year.

Mary Jeanne:

Cool Takiyah, same questions what school do you go to and when will you graduate?

Tekiah:

So right now I'm in Atlanta, georgia, I go to South University, the Orlando campus, and I graduate next year, june 2025. I'm also a second year student.

Mary Jeanne:

Yay, the home stretch, but it just started, so it feels really long still. But from my perspective, once you're past first year oh my goodness, feels so much better, okay. Your past first year oh my goodness, feels so much better, okay. Big question for people who are maybe their first year or looking to go into AA school how much sleep are you both getting, ellen? How much sleep are you getting a night?

Ellen:

I wish I can say eight, but realistically I'll say a good six hours. And that's like with bags in my eyes in the morning because I'm so tired I know it's real, it's so real.

Mary Jeanne:

Takiyah, what's your favorite case?

Tekiah:

My favorite case right now is vascular or cardiac cases. I just like that. You know it requires so much precision and so much teamwork between the surgeon, the perfusionist or the anesthetist in the room.

Mary Jeanne:

So those are my favorite cases right now to be a part of. So good, let's do maybe a couple more Takiyah. What's your favorite place to study?

Tekiah:

So right now my favorite place to study is like a local coffee shop or someplace with, like good lighting and good Wi-Fi.

Mary Jeanne:

Yes, very essential. Okay, Ellen, last question what did you want to be when you were growing up?

Ellen:

Well, I never knew what I wanted to be growing up. Honestly, I think that's what stands out whenever I tell people that I knew I was always interested in healthcare and that's coming from my parents. Like you're going to be a nurse one day, you're going to be a doctor. It wasn't until I got older realizing what I wanted to do specifically in health care, but I've always wanted to be in health care.

Mary Jeanne:

I just didn't know what exactly so.

Mary Jeanne:

Ellen, why don't you start us off, then, by telling us about your cultural background and your upbringing? Well, I'm Haitian. I'm a first generation, so both my parents are born and raised in Haiti. I was born and raised in Miami. My mom's side, I'm the first one to graduate high school, college and soon to be grad school in my immediate family. It's been very interesting, especially coming from parents that don't really have too much education backgrounds, but my dad didn't really go past middle school when he was in Haiti. He just learned to trade and stuck with it, and my mom didn't graduate past high school. So it was interesting navigating and just finding mentors throughout the way and just meeting some really great people in my life to get me to where I am now.

Mary Jeanne:

Honestly, when did you first hear about the CAA profession then?

Tekiah:

So once I graduated, I graduated early 2020. I was supposed to graduate 2021. And when I graduated, it was, we all know, the year 2020, the year of COVID. I was either going to go into get into grad school at FSU for healthcare but well, it was healthcare administration. But I just realized I just couldn't see myself behind a desk wearing, like you know, suit and tie, like I was like I have to be in the action, where things are actually happening, honestly. So I just found an entry level job at Tallahassee and I was an SST, a surgical support tech there, and I told myself I was going to give myself about a year to figure out what I wanted to do. So while I was there, I was just talking to different people. That's where I found out about perfusionists.

Tekiah:

I found out about AA, but, honestly, when I found out about AA, I thought they were all CRNAs. I didn't know what AA was. I knew there was an anesthesiologist and then I heard about CRNA. I'm like, okay, all these people must be CRNAs. And then I spoke with an AA and she said, no, I'm not a CRNA. And she explained to me what an AA was, what the route was, and then I did my own research and realized the two routes I could have took.

Tekiah:

But I already graduated undergrad so personally I didn't want to go back and get a bachelor's degree in nursing to start all over again. So that's the main reason why I chose AA and just seeing them all happy, like personally. I haven't seen an AA upset about their job or the choice. Like they they don't get me wrong They'll have stressful days but they'll always come back happy. I never hear them complain about their job Like I hear about other jobs. So that's what really got me into really wanting to understand what this job entailed and that's what I did. I started asking questions, I started shadowing and I said you know what? I think I can do this.

Mary Jeanne:

Very cool, awesome. All right, takiyah, tell us about your cultural background and upbringing and then how you first heard about the CAA profession.

Tekiah:

So I was born and raised in South Carolina. I grew up in a smaller, predominantly Black community. I was raised by my uncle, who were very serious, and instilled in me at a very young age that education is like one of the most important things. You know. No one can take that from you. So I grew up really valuing education and I knew that I had to do something or like my career had to lead me in a way that I would be able to take care of myself and my future children, future family or whatever. So that's how I grew up.

Tekiah:

I didn't have a lot of family members that were per se in healthcare, but I did have a lot of family members that were per se in health care. But I did have a lot of family members that were in higher education, taught at HBCUs or were somehow some way involved in education. So I did take it very seriously and I knew that I wanted to do something in health care. So when I was in high school I went to the high school for health professions and I learned more about like PAs and nurse practitioners. But I still didn't know what a CAA was until after I graduated college and then that's how I found out about the profession.

Mary Jeanne:

Just online, or when did you? How did you find out about it?

Tekiah:

So I was doing a cancer research internship at Emory in Atlanta and one of the physicians that I was shadowing because a part of the internship is you could shadow as well as do the internship so I was shadowing an anesthesiologist and he's like, oh, okay, like you can go in my rooms. There's my assistants are in there, my PAs is what he called them. My PAs were in there and, like I said, I already knew what PAs were. I knew what nurse practitioners were and CRNA. So I'm like there's no PA for anesthesia. And he's like, yes, there is, just go in there. So when I went in the room I met his PAs, one of the PAs became my mentor and she was telling me all about her route to AA and I was like, okay, I've never heard of this, but it was very appealing. And I said, okay, I'm going to try to apply. And I got really serious about it and I got accepted.

Mary Jeanne:

Wow, yeah, atlanta has, or Georgia has, like the funny and I'm not really well-versed on the history of AAs in Georgia, but I'm not sure if we're still classified as PAs and AAs or if that was like an older thing. They still are, they still are Okay. So every AA if you graduate from the state of Georgia is also a PA. Yep.

Tekiah:

Okay, interesting Yep, your licensure and everything. You have to go through the same Georgia commissionary. Whatever it's, the PAs and AAs, you have to get both.

Mary Jeanne:

Gotcha. Yeah, because it is a funny thing that there are PAs in every specialty except for anesthesia, and in anesthesia there's a CAA. So it's just like how would you know that? Like it's so confusing. You know what I mean. If you weren't on the inside of it, if you weren't Ellen meeting someone in the hallway, then you would never know. This profession exists and I do think you know, with social media and stuff, that's starting to change and just with our numbers growing, that's starting to change. But yeah, I just I love hearing how everyone heard about the profession. So thanks for sharing that. Ellen, how is school going for you? I'm just interested in is it what you expected? Were you well prepared for it?

Tekiah:

I think school was very challenging. It was just a different pace that I honestly was not used to, a different way of studying and trying to figure out how to study. I think that was really the hardest thing for me understanding the pace and understanding the way I studied. Because I feel like a lot during undergrad and just growing up in general, I used to just cruise through school and they say, when you get into grad school it's like a different type of beast, and I've talked to quite a few AAs so it's like I already had that mindset.

Tekiah:

But when you're actually there and you're actually going through it, it's just like something you can't really explain, especially when you don't have that many people in healthcare, let alone in AA school. So it was, it was, it still is like something to get used to. But, like you said, entering second year, it's different because now it's like I'm done with didactics. I'm really focusing on, just like the OR, the clinical aspect and a few online classes. So I've been enjoying this time in the OR and just understanding these different cases and meeting all these new preceptors and just learning their tricks to their anesthetic plans and why they do things the way they do it, even though it's different from the textbook, but it works so.

Tekiah:

I think, that's been my favorite part so far.

Mary Jeanne:

Tikiya, do you agree with Ellen, and could you put some more words to what the difference is? If you do agree, the difference between first year and second year? No, the difference between studying for undergrad and like that massive shift, because I felt that too, there's just this massive shift in how you need to learn in grad school versus undergrad. For sure.

Tekiah:

So I feel like in undergrad a lot of things came to me naturally. I've been like that my entire life, where I didn't really have to study. I could look at things once, I could learn it once, do it once, and then it pretty much stuck with me. And then it pretty much stuck with me. But I will say, in undergrad I wasn't 100 percent sure in what I wanted to do and what my life was going to look like, what my career was. So a lot of the things that I was learning, it didn't really matter to me whether I was retaining it for the long run. It was more so retaining it long enough to pass the class or pass the exam, et cetera.

Tekiah:

So switching over to graduate school, specifically this master's in anesthesia science everything that I'm learning in class will come into play some way or another when I'm on the job the next 20, 30 years, however long I'll be working.

Tekiah:

So it's just a different type of feeling. It's not like, oh, I don't have to worry about that or I don't have to 100% grasp that because I won't see it again. For some smaller things, like when we were learning some things in anatomy like, okay, maybe that can slide, but when it comes to drug dosing and a lot of the physiology, whether it's cardiac or respiratory, a lot of those things you see every single day in the operating room. So it was just a different amount of like seriousness in graduate school, like, ok, I don't understand this. Now I give myself a little bit of grace, but I also have to understand that, ok, we have to come back to this and we have to put a little bit more time, a little bit more elbow grease to make sure that this sticks in the long run elbow grease to make sure that this sticks in the long run.

Mary Jeanne:

Yes, that was just such a very clear articulation of how it feels. Because, on one hand, I think that's a strength of our profession, that you learn it and then you get to use it and do it, and so you do by doing retain it. But also in that beginning, when you're starting that wheel of learning and like starting to like implement all this, it's just everything's so important. You're like great, how am I getting all the important stuff in my brain in a year? But let's talk about the DEI scholarship a little bit and maybe how you heard about it. What made you want to apply, maybe to Kia? You go first.

Tekiah:

So I feel like the first time I saw anything about the DEI scholarship was before I even started school. I was looking through the social media like I would stalk anybody I saw that had anything to do with anesthesiologist assistant, I would stalk their page. Like I'm talking about I'm going two, three years back looking at different things just to see, to educate myself, because I didn't know, besides my one mentor I didn't really know any other anesthetist and I was like, ok, I want to be as educated as possible and know what type of questions to ask. So I remember that I saw an old posting about the scholarship winners for whichever year it was. I can't quite remember, but I just remember saving the post and saying, ok, I'm going to come back to this because I know I'm going to get into school and once I do I'm going to come and apply for this scholarship.

Tekiah:

And sure enough, once I got into school I remember talking to my financial aid advisor and telling her like, hey, if any scholarships come across your desk, please let me know. And she was just kind of like you know, there aren't really much scholarships, honestly, you have to kind of look on your own. So whatever you find, I'm more than happy to help you with, but there's not many scholarships, especially for graduate students, and you're in a very specialized graduate program. And then I remembered, oh, I saved that post and I went back and just so happened, quad A had just made another posting about the scholarship and they were opening up for applications in a few weeks and I said okay, I'll get an application.

Mary Jeanne:

Meant to be. Yeah, Ellen, what about you? Me personally.

Tekiah:

I saw it maybe a couple months before the due date. I saw it on Instagram. Actually, like she said, it was like a post and, just like Takiyah, I was stalking those pages. I was like I'm going to get something out of this because at the end of the day, they're going to post something and it's either you apply or you don't.

Tekiah:

And I have, you know, I have the Becoming CAA A Ellen page and I try to really put out resources that anyone can apply to or just like information. I wish I would have known. I like to repost it or anything. So I follow a lot of AA's and just AA I mean anesthesiology pages, regardless of what it is. And I saw that post and I just remember sharing it. And I shared it about a good three times and by the third time I'm like how can I be sharing this this many times and not apply myself? And, like you said, I was like you know what? I might as well go for it Because at the end of the day, I qualify. This scholarship was literally made for someone like me. Who am I to tell someone else, hey, you should apply. And I'm not taking the time out my day to apply for something that someone literally created for people like me. So that's the main reason why I applied and shout out to Instagram for you know, informing me and the other people.

Mary Jeanne:

I know I was like, how do we get our information about AAs? Like you either know someone or truly this little burst of social media. I just think it's so interesting to see the people coming up who truly saw about the profession on TikTok. So you guys both were winners in 2024. You both won scholarship money that was used then for the for the year. Right, it's a scholarship to use for the year. How did that change for you, winning that money or winning the scholarship? Like how did that change your relationship with our profession? So?

Tekiah:

for me it was very I mean, it was just very motivating because I did not, honestly did not think I was going to win. I put, I put in my application, just making sure that I didn't leave any money on the table. I didn't want to not put it in and then wish I had later. So I kind of didn't think about it. And then we didn't hear from I don't know about Ellen, but I didn't hear anything. I didn't even get any uh email saying like we've received your application. So I was just like, okay, well, I did my part, you know, I tried.

Tekiah:

And when I won I was like, oh, my gosh. And then I remember talking to my aunt and my mother about it and they were like, wow, this is the American Academy, Like, wow, this is a national, you're a national scholar. And I was like, okay, nah, I'm really taking it in, I'm really understanding. So it did make me feel great. And it also made me feel good because there is not a lot of diversity from what I've seen so far as a student in the profession. So to see that the profession is making actual efforts to be more inclusive and supportive of their students that are underrepresented in this field. That also made me feel really good, because there aren't many scholarships, so the fact that there is one specifically for students like me, Ellen, also made me feel really great. And to be a winner, I was just like wow, okay, I felt even more motivated to get the job done.

Mary Jeanne:

Ellen, I actually have a different follow up question for you Based off of that. I'm just wondering if, when you were looking at the profession, if you felt like, oh, this profession is for me too, or if it, if you didn't feel included in, you know, the pamphlets and the flyers, or did you even notice that? I'm just interested to hear your perspective.

Tekiah:

Personally, I don't really think there was much publication on the field, let alone people who look like me. Personally, I didn't see any flyers, I didn't see any people in general I just saw CAA. But I think, working in the hospital and being able to see at my facility the type of representation, I noticed the lack of diversity that was there. So for me personally, I think it was more like a motivation Because at the end of the day, it's like I don't see that many people. I could be that person that can help bridge that gap. So for the people who look like me, one day they could look at me like hey, how did you get there? And they'll feel more inclined to ask questions.

Tekiah:

I know I'm the type of I'm very extroverted, I'm the type of person to ask questions and stuff. Like I told you, I went up to MCAs and hey, are you a CRNA? And I had to push myself to do that. There's a lot of people where I come from they won't do that. They won't go to someone that don't look like them and feel comfortable to ask a question like that.

Tekiah:

I felt dumb at that moment. I called that person out of their name or out of their title. I just feel like seeing not many people look like me really motivated me to want to get into it more, because I know that it took a lot for me to get out of my shell, to be comfortable, to get into spaces that I knew some would say I didn't belong in, have that type of strength to ask these type of questions and put themselves in these rooms that I could be. I can go into their rooms and look like them and be able to push them to where I am in my life, hopefully one day, where that I can bring them up with me, if that makes sense.

Mary Jeanne:

It makes beautiful sense. Is that one of the reasons why you started becoming Ellen? Or say your handle on Instagram, in case people want to follow you?

Tekiah:

Becoming CAA.

Mary Jeanne:

Ellen yeah, so is that? Did that? Start right when you started school or before school?

Tekiah:

It started before school. So actually this was my second attempt into getting into AA school until I finally got in, really. So, yes, so I applied the first time. I applied extremely late and I ended up not getting in. But looking back now I realized my application was not strong at all. I didn't really have much guidance when it came to that application and it looked like I threw it together overnight, even though I felt like I spent months working on it.

Tekiah:

And after I finally got a rejection email, it was after the program started, even though I knew I didn't get in. It was after the program started Like I would, even though I knew I didn't get in. Like it was very heartbreaking because it's like dang, like I worked so hard to like apply and go back and take these classes that I was required to take and, you know, pay out of pocket, because I mean, once you graduate you can't use financial aid anymore. And it's like you're working so hard and it's like you feel like you're not moving in life. So I created that page because I felt like you said.

Tekiah:

I felt like there wasn't a lot of representation that looked like me and I felt like not that many people was telling people like, hey, it's okay to not get in the first time, like you can get in the second time. So I created that page I the first post I made was to let people know hey, I didn't get in, but I'm going to get in one day. You know, it's all God's timing at the end of the day, and I just wanted to be that person that someone else can feel comfortable to ask the question that they wouldn't feel comfortable to ask someone else.

Mary Jeanne:

You're doing that. I see you doing that Before I even knew that you won this DA scholarship. I knew you from Instagram and you are doing exactly what you set out to do and truly like our profession. I'm so grateful to you and our profession is so grateful, because I do think this is the change that needs to happen and it's like well, how does that happen? Okay, Well, it happens because Ellen and Takiyah were like I want to be a CAA and I don't feel like I have a lot of representation, nor do I have a lot of people who are CAAs that I know, and I'm still going to do it.

Mary Jeanne:

And I didn't get in the first time and I'm still going to do it because I know I belong there. This is really inspiring to me. So I you're doing it, Ellen, I love, I love that message. Takiyah, I have going off of this still, how do you feel in healthcare? Like being a CAA is kind of the underdog in in anesthesia. I mean, I don't think anyone would maybe disagree with that, even just by our size. We're just such a smaller profession but how do you feel like you fit in health care in terms of diversity and feeling like you belong?

Tekiah:

I feel like it's like multiple layers of just multiple layers of being at the bottom of the totem pole. So I remember in college we took this class like intersectionality of oppression. So basically it's like okay, we're women, then we're black women, and then when you're like a CAA which everyone might not feel like this, but CAAs, when you look in the politics of things, are sometimes the underdog. So there's just like multiple layers of being the underdog and multiple layers of being underrepresented. So when I did one of my first rotations, there were majority of my preceptors were men and so I'm like, okay, this is like just another added layer.

Tekiah:

So I feel like in healthcare we are kind of at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of like how people view us and how other people that look like us. There aren't many CAAs in general. There aren't going to be in your like average, or there aren't going to be many Black people in there, just in my experience. And then to be a woman on top of that, it's just like sometimes I'm in the room, I'm the only Black person, I'm the only woman and I'm an AA student working with the CRNA preceptor. So it is multiple layers of just being the underdog.

Tekiah:

But I will say that all the time those experiences are not negative. So I won't look at it as a negative experience, because I do go and I learn a lot. I do go in these spaces and people treat me just like they treat every other student. I do go in these spaces and I'm not looked at as less than, or there are no barriers to my learning experience, so they aren't negative experiences. It's just the fact that nothing will change until there are more students who look like us in the field and more students who look like us in the operating room, whether that's nurses, techs, surgeons, caas, crnas, whatever, so on and so forth. So did I answer your question?

Mary Jeanne:

You absolutely did. Yes, you absolutely did. Something you said in there sort of was interesting to me, that you feel like you are treated just like any other AA student or just like any other student in the hospital, and I guess I'm wondering if that's always been true. And I'm also wondering, ellen, if you would ever. If that's always been true, and I'm also wondering, ellen, if you would agree with that.

Tekiah:

I feel like both sides of that coin, like both sides of that story, could be true. So there have been moments where I may have felt like I'm being held to a higher standard or just maybe something that I say I could say the same exact words that maybe a classmate or another student says, but because of how I look, it may come up as, oh, you have an attitude or oh, you're you know what I'm saying and I'm just trying to advocate for myself and stand up for myself. So that side of the story has happened. But also I've had it happen where you know me, a classmate, another student, whoever is in the room, everybody is treated the same, like I know everybody's had that experience with a grumpy surgeon, where he's grumpy with everybody. It doesn't matter who you are, he's yelling at you to get the table down and you can't click the button fast enough and you know whatever.

Tekiah:

But then there are, there has been a time, where I felt like, hmm, okay, well, that wasn fair and in those moments I had to learn, you know, to speak up for myself. Or if I didn't feel like feel comfortable speaking up for myself, my program has been very open and supportive to me and I know 100 percent. I can go to any of my professors or my program director and voice hey, this has happened. And my program director likes to say she's mama bear, she does not play by her cubs and if any situation like that has ever come across her desk, it immediately ceased.

Mary Jeanne:

That's so good to hear. I'm just, I'm really warmed by the fact that you feel that closeness and connection and support from your preceptors and faculty. Ellen, would you agree with Takiyah and her perspective there on? You know how she feels in the operating room or in higher education.

Tekiah:

Takiyah was very spot on with everything she said. Like she articulated that very well. I feel the exact same way. There's times where it's just one of those long days during clinicals and you just got to bite your tongue sometimes because it's like, at the end of the day, you know this is how that person is and you're going to be here for a short period of time and you got to learn what you could learn and keep it moving. You don't have to walk into clinicals thinking everyone's going to be your best friend At the end of the day. This is a place for you to learn. You're not in a classroom, you're in the OR. So learn what you can learn and keep it moving.

Tekiah:

I think in the back of your mind was today that bad or am I going crazy type of thing? I used to overthink things a lot when it came to clinical, especially during block two. But after going back now I'm just like at the end of the day, I'm going to learn something from you. So regardless if it comes from you screaming at me or you smiling at me, I'm going to take it the exact same way. I'm going to smile, say thank you and go about my day because, at the end of the day, I can only do what I can, the best I can do. I can't do anything past that.

Tekiah:

That's my mindset now and, like she said, like having support around you goes a very long, a long way. May it may come from staff or friendships you made throughout the program. For me personally, the most support is the friendships I've made, because there's days where I just I start to overthink. I started to tell myself is this really for me? Maybe what they're saying are true, or maybe I'm just not where I think I want to be or where I should be. But my friends that I've made throughout my journey has always pushed me and motivated me and keep reminding me at the end of the day, if you weren't meant to be here, you wouldn't be here. Like, at the end of the day, you're going to get through this. This is school, this is temporary. Soon you'll be a CAA and you'll be able to tell your story to the next student. That's feeling the exact same way as you and that's how I take clinicals at this point.

Mary Jeanne:

Wow, that is so evolved, ellen. I mean, I just feel like I hope everyone just really heard what you said, because what you're pointing to is that while you're in school and just even when you're a CAA like healthcare is a toxic environment and not every day, all day, but there's a lot of big egos and toxicity and bias and all sorts of things that, like outside of the OR you'd be like that's not socially appropriate, but in the OR it's like how is this happening? Is that me, is that you? So I just think it's really tricky to navigate it and I just really appreciate you guys sharing both of your perspectives, because I know there are people listening who you know, like you guys did not know another CAA and maybe did not know another CAA that they felt like they shared identity with, and now, hearing your story, they do. So I just I just you guys are making such a big difference right now and I'm just thrilled to be here with you while you're making the big difference. So I love talking to you both.

Mary Jeanne:

I have a couple last questions and this kind of a more big picture about, like how I was touching on how well, ellen, you said there aren't really any flyers to even be seen, let alone see a flyer that has someone who I feel like a shared identity with within our profession, to, you know, be more inclusive, to reach out, to have more expansive community that represents all of our communities that we are taking care of. Like what could we do? Is there anything that you feel like well, gee, this would really make a big difference? Or is it just you know, one graduate at a time trying to change this landscape? Ellen, why don't you go first?

Tekiah:

I feel like there's a lot of things that can be done, but it's just. It gets so tricky because I feel like there's a fine line where it's like okay, like they always say, we can do, we could do training. Okay, pass that. Then what? Pass the training, what are we supposed to do? Just like we learned something in class, do we go home and practice that every day? No, so like DEI training. You mean, yeah, dei training, yeah, but past that, it's like, honestly, I think it's just your attitude. Just be accepting. You don't have to go home and say, hey, I'm for this, I'm for that. Just go into work, do your job.

Tekiah:

In healthcare, your job is to be an advocate for your patient, be an advocate for your coworkers and be an advocate for yourself. And when you go home, what you do, that's your business. But when you're in the healthcare setting, let's just make everything a peaceful place, just come with a smile on the face. Let's treat everyone the same. And when it comes to things we can do, the one thing I would say I enjoy that my program did because they spotlight light on it we have professionalism one week every block while we're in school, and one of the professional week, it was DEI and the person that was in charge of it.

Tekiah:

They brought out so many people in the AA community, from doctors to CAAs, to come talk to us via Zoom, and when I say that's probably one of the best like professionalism weeks I've ever had, because it's like so many people that look like me and let's not even say they look like me, they just had similar experiences based off their backgrounds like to hear someone say it, and they're still practicing to hear someone say it and come back to speak to us.

Tekiah:

It just speaks more volume because at the end of the day, it's like they're experiencing the exact same things you're experiencing and they're still working hard and they're still telling you you can still do that, and I feel like there's not enough of that, and I didn't know that other programs didn't have that, and so I really enjoy the fact that my program is actually pushing things like that and another motivation for me to graduate and be able to do the same thing. And one thing I can say pushing as well would be going to like some of these HBCUs or these smaller colleges to talk to their students those are Will you say what an HBU is, just so people listening know what that is.

Tekiah:

Oh, a Historically Black Institution, yeah. So going back to these types of colleges that don't have like pre-AA clubs or don't even know about the field I graduated from Florida A&M University and it's right here in Tallahassee and, like I said, I never knew about the career and just being able to go back to places like that and, you know, go to college fairs and be a representative for my university to give back to my undergrad, that's something that I desire to do one day, and little things like that. I think those are changes that we can make as students, but past that, I personally don't know what we can do. Past the training and I don't want to sit on this podcast and lie to you but maybe being part of the DEI committee, like you know, more brains can work together and figure something out.

Mary Jeanne:

I do think you've hit on something that I've come to again and again in my own journey and searching for, like, where do I really fit in this profession? And what's meant for me is that it does come down to an individual. So like when you think, gee, someone should go to HBCU colleges, and you're like, oh okay, that person is me. Now that I've thought that, thought, you know what I mean. Like you're the exact right person to do that. Whatever you're thinking, because our profession is so small that we do need individuals to take that first step. And that's where the change and the momentum starts is when you know whoever decided for your DEI professional week. Hey, I'm going to get together. This group of people made a huge impact on you. And now, whenever you go get your job, you're like, hey, there's this great idea that we could do and let me spearhead it.

Mary Jeanne:

You know, I just think it takes the perfect amount of like exposure. You have to see that it's true and possible. And then you have to also realize, ok, now it's up to me. In our profession, because it's so small, you know, of course everything expands. We think all of health care needs to change, and then our you know nation needs to change and be redirected. Like too big, let's start with just our CA profession. So I think you're spot on, ellen Takiyah. Do you have anything else to add to that?

Tekiah:

No, I think Ellen definitely hit the nail on the head. I was thinking to go back to some of these HBCUs and talk to their students. I know some like medical schools and programs like that have bridge programs where if you, you know, take your MCAT and score a certain score, you're automatically admitted to their medical school. Maybe a program like that there are so many new AA programs opening that that will be something to help underrepresented students get into programs because, like similar to Ellen's experience, not having proper guidance on even how to apply to AA school that's a big barrier, I think, to getting more underrepresented students into this profession or into the medical field in general is their applications are lacking, or maybe they didn't have enough support in college so they had to work through college and their grades aren't as great. Or maybe they didn't have enough money or to be able to apply, because each application costs a certain amount of money. So maybe if there were fee waivers for certain students or some type of bridge program for underrepresented students or something put in place that show these students like, hey, you can do it, and here is like a little bit of extra help for you because you might not have all of the supplies or all the tools in your tool belt that some of your counterparts already come equipped with.

Tekiah:

So I think Ellen hit it spot on going to these HBCUs and even high school. Like I said, I went to the high school for health professions but I didn't know what a CAA was and here this profession has been around for decades. So someone being a spokesperson, someone going out and educating people more about our field and our profession. Also, I do want to say the second time that I applied as well. I was part of Health Prep's internship and they gave me MCAT paid fully through them, as well as a paid internship.

Mary Jeanne:

What's Health Prep? Say more about that.

Tekiah:

Health Prep is a program under Emory and basically underprivileged students can apply and they accept don't quote me me, but I want to say about 20 students every year, every summer, and they'll um give you about a thousand dollars. They'll pay for your mcat, for either med school or aa profession, pa profession it's like specific health care professions and um they'll try to have spokesmen from each profession come out and speak to you throughout the summer. I felt like that was a really great opportunity that not a lot of people hear about as well. And how did I find out about it? I want to say I found out. Honestly, I think I found out about everything through Instagram. You really just have to follow the right people.

Mary Jeanne:

Yeah, well, now we're following you, ellen, we got to follow you and, yeah, and you're part of that, and I do think I would love to put a link Well, let's find a link for a health prep, just so that people can have that resource and even just the idea of it, like, if you're not a prospective student but you are in higher education and you're like, hey, I'm loosely associated with an AA school, maybe we could facilitate something like that. Like that is exactly how these things happen. So that was a wonderful suggestion. Yeah, let me put that in the show notes. I have one harder question and one easier question, one sort of fun question. Let's start with the easier one first. The easier one is what moment are you most excited for after graduation?

Tekiah:

I feel like I'm excited to walk across the stage. I'm excited for my first paycheck. I'm excited for my first vacation. What's your first vacation? I don't even know, as long as it's outside of the OR.

Mary Jeanne:

I'm fine.

Tekiah:

And I'm excited for my first student because I know so many of my preceptors I've had. They're like new grads or they've graduated within the last year, two years, and they're fresh and they're already having students. But some of them are, you know, really really good and they're already having students. But some of them are really really good and they're so nice, they're so relatable, they understand. So I'm excited to have my first student and just be like girl, what's the tea? What's going on? Let me take you under my wing.

Mary Jeanne:

They're going to be lucky to have you. Ellen, what about you? What moment are you most excited for after graduation?

Tekiah:

Honestly, I'm just ready for my vacation. I need a break, Not even from the OR from the United States. Currently I'm married and we've been doing long distance since I've started this program and I just want to go on a vacation and just be with me and my husband and just forget about everything. And I take the exam what? A month after I graduate, so hopefully I can take my I mean take my trip right after that, so I don't think about anything besides me and my husband. Honestly, that sounds good.

Mary Jeanne:

I second that that sounds like a beautiful thing to do. Okay, slightly harder question, Season four of Awakened Anestis. I'm going to be focusing on how to be healthy and how to thrive as a CAA and since you guys are AA students, I'm just wondering if you think it's possible to be healthy and thrive as an AA student, or how you're approaching staying at least reasonably healthy and thriving a reasonable amount occasionally in AA school. I'm just wondering what your thoughts are. Ellen, why don't you go first?

Tekiah:

You must have saw me shaking my head. Honestly, it's an uphill-downhill battle for me, because at one point I was working out three before this program, I really got into my health. I was going to the gym, I was eating good. I wasn't eating too much processed food. As soon as the program came, I stopped meal prepping the quickest fast food near me is what I was eating and I was trying to go to the gym. And then my excuse was I have to study, I have to study, I can't go to the gym. And then when we did clinicals, I was back at the gym again. But honestly it's.

Tekiah:

I feel like going to these different rotations and not having stability is my problem. I'm the type of person like I need structure. So right now I'm struggling in that department. So when you make that podcast, I will be listening, yes, but right now I think you can, because I personally seen a lot of people on my Instagram page going to the gym and that's just their coping mechanism when it comes to the stress. But for me, I think everyone needs to figure out what's best for them when it comes to coping with their stress, and for me it's just not going to the gym right now it's relaxing in my bed and maybe watching a movie, and I have to do what's best for my mental health right now.

Mary Jeanne:

Good for you. That's a huge lesson. That is a massive lesson that literally I'm learning now when I'm 40. Like it's okay to choose rest, like that is fine, but it's a hard lesson. And Takiyah, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on it.

Tekiah:

Takiyah, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on it. So I completely agree with Ellen. Just a moment of like vulnerability. I have gained like 20 pounds since starting AA school and I think a lot of things have contributed to that. Number one, my cortisol levels are always high.

Tekiah:

Like I'm always in fight or flight, I'm always stressed and first year for me is probably probably the biggest, was the hardest adjustment versus now in clinicals. I'm trying to get more of a routine down because I know I'm at the hospital, you know, 10 to 12 hours a day, but first year, when you have a quiz, like every other day pretty much, you have an exam every week, you're trying to study and, like Ellen said, we're only getting like six hours of sleep. Then, when clinicals and didactic are starting to ramp up, you're going to the hospital in the morning, you're coming to class in the afternoon, you have an exam tomorrow as soon as you leave the hospital, like your only time to study is when you get home or your only time to study is. You know I have a classmate. She will wake up really early before clinical and study, which I personally couldn't do it, but that's what worked for her.

Tekiah:

So I feel like it is hard, but if you are mentally disciplined enough and it's something that's already been a priority in your life, then you'll probably do fine in keeping up with it. But for me, I wasn't disciplined and that wasn't a priority for me before I started AA school. So I feel like it was really hard for me to be disciplined. But now that I have a more structured schedule in second year, I'm going to the gym. I try to go to the gym every day after work. I don't even come home, so that's just something that I'm incorporating to the gym. I try to go to the gym every day after work. I don't even come home, so that's just something that I'm incorporating in my schedule.

Mary Jeanne:

But if I could go back and tell myself that Before I started a school? I would definitely have told myself.

Tekiah:

good to hear. I'm sorry, I think that was long-winded.

Mary Jeanne:

I love it. I love the vulnerability, I love being real, because that's that's what people need to hear. Is that like Implementing a new habit when you're in the heightened stress moment is very difficult. So having these habits in place and just also knowing, hey, that's what it's going to be like in AA school, and no one knows that's what it's going to be like until they hear you say that. So yeah, you're enduring it. So everyone maybe can have a teeny tiny bit leg up after you, after hearing you and also I want to say to both of you that it does get better. It does get better.

Mary Jeanne:

Aa school is so demanding and being a CAA is also very demanding, but your mindset changes. When you start getting paid and when you start being a professional and not a student, the self-worth that you've been trying to maintain and grow and be confident just blossoms as a professional and that just really changes everything, makes everything feel so much better. So just hang on, because it is so hard. You're not wrong, it's so hard and you both are doing a great job, and I appreciate you guys taking your Friday night to talk to me and really share your journey, because it matters so so much and I'm just really grateful to have this conversation. So thank you both so much.

Tekiah:

Thank you for inviting us on and allowing us this platform to share our experiences. I really appreciate that and I hope there's a student out there that could be inspired by what we said today.

Mary Jeanne:

There will be. I already know there will be. Thank you, guys so much. Thank you, bye, bye. I hope you loved meeting Takiyah and Ellen as much as I did and inspired by their story. If you are a current AA student or a prospective AA student who hopes to be accepted and start one of the AA schools shortly, you can find all the information to apply for the DEI Quad A scholarship in the show notes. If you're someone who wants to make a donation to the DEI scholarship, you can also find a link to donate in the show notes. Ellen and Takiyah have both shared their Instagram handles if you want to follow the rest of their AA school journey and off into their future careers.

Mary Jeanne:

What else? I'm inviting everyone personally to join Mindful Connections during season four of Awaken Anestis podcast. It is a chance for anyone in this CAA community AA students perspectives, practicing CAAs to join, to build community, to learn more about yourself, about your work, about relationships with others through mindfulness. So we're going to be practicing mindfulness together in a very practical, very applicable way to your life, as well as exploring some themes over the course of season four. So if you're interested in that free opportunity, you can find a link in the show notes to join Mindful Connections. Of course you can follow me on Instagram at Awaken Anesthetist. I tend to share some behind the scenes. If you're interested in stuff like that on Instagram you can find a link to join my email newsletter community and I will see everyone back here next Friday for another episode. Thank you so much for being here. Let's talk soon, y'all? Okay, I'm gonna press stop record. Yay, you did it. Congratulations. How do you feel?

Tekiah:

uh, that was good, that was fun, it was so good.

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Mary Jeanne Roberts, CAA

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