Awakened Anesthetist

[PROCESS] Certified Anesthesiologist Assistant to Tech Startup Founder: Kathryn Farrell's Permission to Find What's Missing

• Mary Jeanne, Certified Anesthesiologist Assistant • Season 3 • Episode 44

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Imagine standing at what you thought would be the pinnacle of your career and being hit with the feeling that "this isn't it".  Kathryn Farrell,  a Certified Anesthesiologist Assistant (CAA) moves beyond the confines of her first professional aspiration, her second, and now her third in a journey to find her true passion. Kathryn candidly shares her fascinating evolution from aspiring dermatologist, unfulfilled CAA turned 1099 anesthetist, and now founder of the anesthesia staffing platform, Scopa Health. As Kathryn's story unfolds, it echoes the importance of starting anew in career, seeking fulfillment, and permission to craft a life by design, not default. 

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Interested in practicing mindfulness with this CAA community?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I'm going to preface this, I'm going to be completely honest here, because I don't think it does anyone a service to you know, put a rose-colored glasses on it.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast, the first podcast to highlight the CAA experience. I'm your host, mary Jean, and I've been a certified anesthesiologist assistant for close to two decades. Throughout my journey and struggles, I've searched for guidance that includes my unique perspective as a CAA. At one of my lowest points, I decided to turn my passion for storytelling and my belief that the CAA profession is uniquely able to create a life by design into a podcast. If you are a practicing CAA, current AA student or someone who hopes to be one, I encourage you to stick around and experience the power of being in a community filled with voices who sound like yours, sharing experiences you never believed possible. I know you will find yourself here at the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast. Welcome in. Hello all my fellow CAAs, aa students and anesthes colleagues. I'm your host, mary Jean, and welcome to our process series. These process episodes are meant to expand our collective understanding of what a CAA can be and do and move us all in the direction of creating our life by design rather than default, like all things medical. Let's jump in first with a quick timeout. Catherine Farrell graduated as a CAA from Nova Tampa in 2011. She currently works in the state of Georgia as a 1099 employee at one Atlanta Area University Hospital and one private outpatient group. She works around 24 to 30 hours a week and does not take any call. Before I go on here, I think it's going to be helpful for me to define the term 1099 employee, because we referenced that type of work several times throughout this episode. So saying a CAA works 1099 is a shorthand way to describe the employment status of a CAA who is hired under a shorter termed contract. That contract often has less guarantees. It has less benefits, but more flexibility of schedule and a higher hourly wage. The 1099 term itself actually comes from the number on the IRS tax form that contract workers from across all industries will use to submit their income. In this episode, catherine describes the why and the how behind becoming a 1099 CAA. Catherine is also the founder of Scopa Health. Scopa Health is a provider centered anesthesia staffing app and a website which she currently spends about 20 hours per week on, including afternoons and weekends At its core. This incredibly honest process episode is about something we haven't really talked much about, and that is what if you become a CAA and realize this isn't it. As we explore Catherine's process, you will hear some familiar themes to the pod, like how to find confidence to tackle new challenges, how to find expanders in a professional space. That is not your expertise, but we ultimately arrive at Catherine's realization that being a CAA was only meant to be a step along her journey and not her final destination. Whether you are currently pre-AA or a practicing CAA, this episode will give you permission to chase your life by design, even if that ultimately means stepping away from anesthesia. I can't wait to share this one-of-a-kind conversation with you, so let's jump in. Welcome, catherine to the Awakened Dinesitist.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, Mary Jean. I am so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2:

Wonderful. I'm excited to have you. We've been talking about this for a number of weeks and I'm excited that the day is finally here. So I would love to start with a rapid fire round to get to know you a little bit better, to let the audience know you a little bit better, and so if you're game for that, I say we do it.

Speaker 1:

Let's do it.

Speaker 2:

Awesome, Okay, first question is are you an extrovert or an introvert?

Speaker 1:

Oh boy, Okay. I love this because I think a lot of people identify with being an introvert. I definitely am an introvert, but I am a very social introvert. I just require some reset time in between.

Speaker 2:

Yes, awesome. Yes, I would agree with that for myself. Are you a coffee girl or a teagow?

Speaker 1:

You know I gave up coffee for about almost a year a while ago, and I have learned through that that I am definitely coffee Like, not the same without coffee and I that is like the joy of my morning.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, girl. And then are you late arriving to work, kind of just like scooting in right before the case starts, or are you nice and early and you take your little break before case starts?

Speaker 1:

You know I always feel rushed and I feel like I'm being late, but that's because I get upset if I'm there without enough time. So I think I'm probably mostly early, but I cut it to the last minute of my frame of being early. So always rushing but get there on time.

Speaker 2:

Gotcha. All right, two more, let's see. What do I want to know about you? What is the best show you've watched lately on streaming or I don't know, cable?

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, this will probably. Oh, you know what. No, I know which one it is. I went to Florida from 2005 to 2009. And so Swamp Kings that highlighted like our glory days is the best thing I've watched in months, and my husband, begrudgingly, watched it with me and I yes, that's my top pick of the year, if I really yes, but mostly for nostalgia reasons. The show itself wasn't anything spectacular. I just relived my glory days the whole time and it made me so happy.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I don't know that. I don't know anything about Swamp Kings. I'll take your word for it.

Speaker 1:

If you didn't go to Florida, you probably don't care about it at all. Like Florida University, you mean, yeah, University of Florida in Gainesville. So when I was there, we won two football national championships and two basketball national championships and I was also an athlete, so it was very much a part. You know, I was friends with some of those players and like we really lived it and it was such a cool experience and so watching it again, you know they were talking about restaurants we used to go to and bars we used to go to and it was just, it was really, it was really fun for me.

Speaker 2:

I got you.

Speaker 1:

Probably not for the average person who doesn't care about it.

Speaker 2:

Love it. Okay, last question I love podcasts, obviously, and I love listening to podcasts and I love hearing what other people have found. So any podcast recommendations you can give?

Speaker 1:

Oh man, huberman Lab and Ritual on repeat. Back to back Huberman Lab, ritual, like I. Just I'm sure we'll get into this a little bit, but I am truly a nerd at heart and I absolutely love hearing about talking about learning, about new aspects of scientific discovery and especially in the realm of optimizing health and well-being through data backed protocols. I can't get enough, and so you know it's funny when you ask about TV. When I watch TV, it's all complete mindless trash, but when I read or when I listen to a podcast, I want to learn something, so I read. Everything I read is nonfiction. All my podcasts are pretty scientific backed and yeah, so those are my faves Huberman Lab and Ritual. And if everyone out there listening who likes science which most of your listeners probably- do highly recommend.

Speaker 2:

Awesome, cool. Okay, I would love for you to tell us about your upbringing, like your cultural background. What made you you? You know small, small Catherine, start us there.

Speaker 1:

Right. So my parents split up when I was pretty young, so I spent my life going between the two parents, and so you know whoever I was staying with. I was being raised by a single parent, right? Just a single dad or a single mom, and I think that that helped to make me very independent From a very young age. I was on my own a fair amount at home. I was given a lot of trust, and part of that was probably because I was a pretty conscientious kid, but part of it was just necessity, right? You have a single working mom who has to go to work and can't afford to have a nanny around all the time. Well, I was on my own for a fair bit and I didn't realize how special that was until now, as a parent, I see how other parents treat their kids and I see a lot of kids who just don't get a lot of autonomy and I think that at the end of the day, that does them a disservice. So I remember by the time I got to college I knew how to do my own laundry, cook my own food, set my own schedule, wake up to an alarm. You know I had friends would never woken up to an alarm clock because their parents woke them up every morning and they didn't know how to do laundry. They didn't know how to find places that they didn't know how to get to. You know, these are the days before Google Maps. So, yeah, I think that it really set a foundation for me, not only having the skills to survive on my own, but the confidence to know that whatever I need to do, I can figure out how to do it and I am capable of doing it. The message to me growing up was you know, you can do this. They would not have left me alone if they didn't think that I could handle it, and so I'm really grateful that they instilled that confidence in me and gave me the opportunity to prove that I can do that, because it's carried over into adulthood of knowing, even if I don't know how to do something, I am confident that I can figure it out.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm, confidence that may be. I just have so many questions because I think for CAAs, a lot of us can appear very confident. Certainly that is a skill to either actually have it or to exude it as an anesthesia provider. And I just I'm so interested. When did you recognize that? That's where your confidence came from? Was this like an evolution? Was this more recently? Have you always felt like I could do anything?

Speaker 1:

No, I think it was the past few years I would not say I was overly confident in like my 20s, teens and 20s right, because you're so well, I shouldn't say you I was so concerned with what other people thought I was definitely wanted to be, you know, well-liked and I wanted everyone to think I was cool and interesting and stylish and all these things that as you get older you realize that doesn't matter as much as you thought it did. And so in my 30s I think we'll get into this a little bit. But I've been on a pretty significant personal journey and part of that is identifying my strengths and my weaknesses with honesty. And I can honestly say now that one of my strengths is confidence. But it took a while to really own that and to find the real source of it and the real manifestation of it. Like you said, you can project confidence and I'm sure anyone who knew me when I was 22 years old would say I always seemed very confident. But inside I was so concerned with every single thing I said and every move I made and every outfit I wore. And is it good enough? Is this impressing people? Did I say something that wasn't cool and I would just be eaten up over it for a day if I felt like I made a misstep. And part of growing up is learning to accept that. Everyone goes through that Everyone makes mistakes, everyone says things they regret and hopefully you learn from it. But it's human and to beat yourself up over it doesn't really do anything. You just try to grow from it. So it's taken a while to get to that place, but hopefully the younger generation can get to that place a little faster. Yeah, we have a lot more language.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, we're just even discussing that openly now. That's one of the things I hope to do through this podcast is like let's expedite the journey for people coming behind us. So I am so interested to hear how the CAA profession overlapped with this personal evolution. So let's go back to you know, I don't know undergrad Catherine or high school Catherine, and how did she first hear about the CAA profession? When did you decide that that's what you were going to do?

Speaker 1:

So when I was a sophomore in high school, I took biology and completely fell in love, just head over heels, hit by a thunderbolt, like this is what I have to do my whole life. I love this stuff. I could not get enough. I was like the nerd going home and reading the textbook like extra, just like, oh, this is really cool. Like, oh, I loved it and I decided that my life path was going to be. I was going to be a dermatologist and there was no plan B, there was no backup. That was what I was going to do. And so from the time I was like 14 years old, all the way through college, I was going to be a dermatologist and I also ran cross country and track and college. And so when you were an athlete at a D1 school, you get an athletic academic advisor. So when I was trying to take you know, I think the bare minimum credit hours is 12. And I was trying to take 13. And I got like a talking to about, like don't take on too much because you have to focus on practice, and I was like, no, it's fine, like I'm, I have to go to med school, I have to take these credits. So anyway, just, you know a little background, that's kind of how I was. I was treated and you know, my even my family was not very encouraging of me going to med school. They were like, well, you know, one day you're going to want a family and you're probably going to want to go part time, so maybe you should look at something else. And you know, really it was just, it was interesting, like what was surrounded. You know what surrounded it, and nobody in my family is medical. So I went through college kind of doing the bare minimum, getting okay grades, but really, you know, sports were my life and so I certainly was not the most impressive candidate. And when I applied to med school, I applied to like all the top ones in the Southeast, thinking I was a shoe admin because the, you know, the athletic advisors say, oh, they'll see that you did a sport and you don't have to do all that extra stuff. It's fine, you know. And I didn't get a single interview and I had now been planning on this for like seven years and I was like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? Like I had no backup plan. But I have a step sister who at the time was a nurse and she was planning on going to nurse an anesthetist school. She wasn't in yet, I think she was working in ICU, and so she had seen a lot more in the OR. You know, she'd been exposed to a lot more. And she said well, why don't you look at perfusionist school? And I looked up perfusionist and while I was on that page it was a list of, like different allied health professions, and when I was looking through different medical specialties I thought, oh, if I didn't get into dermatology, anesthesia looks really interesting. You know, I like the chemistry aspect of it. And so I saw anesthesia assistant and I was like, oh, what's that? And I looked at it, I clicked on it and I read through it and I thought, oh, wow, only two years and you make six figures. That sounds pretty good. And my impatient 18 role. How old I have been 20, 20 year old, self 21. I thought well, I'll just do this two year program and if I hate it I'll just go back to med school. Because I thought at this point I'm either going to wait a year and then apply again, or I can just do this in two years and then I can apply if I really don't like it. So I was literally in the last interview class. You know all the deadlines had passed because this was in like May or something, and Nova had one interview group left and I got the interview, I got accepted and I thought, well, I guess I'm doing this now. I mean, it was very haphazard. I had four weeks in between undergrad and grad school. I traveled for two of those weeks, moved to Tampa and went to school. So you know, I say it's a terrible story. It really is terrible. I did not know what I was getting into. I had no like real concept of the profession other than my like seven hours of shadowing that I did and I thought, well, this looks fine and it just kind of worked out. I don't know if that was, you know, whatever believes that that was divine intervention or just a happy accident, but it kind of, I think. At the end of the day, I think it worked out really well for me. Yeah, for me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you have like almost the old version of the story and like this next generation all has a similar, newer version, because a lot of the people in you and I are similar aged have that similar story where it was like, well, we're just going to do this, and so many more people now are going in with that as they're absolute. I heard about this in high school. This is what I want to be, so I appreciate you shedding some light, like just yeah, I just think there is this interesting dynamic when you fall into something that ends up being the thing that you were supposed to do. So I can't wait to get into then, like your next generation now, because we've spoke a lot about your business, scopa Health, and so I know that there's like another layer of what's going on in your life. But I want to go back to those first few years working as a CAA. Did you enjoy being a certified anesthesiologist assistant? What did your work schedule look like? Did you get in and think, oh, this is it, I'm this forever?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I'm going to preface this, I'm going to be completely honest here because I don't think you want to service to. You know, put a rose colored glasses on it. I in school, I thought this is the coolest thing that ever existed. I like, again the internet came out. You should see my textbooks. There are like all the way around. Each page is like notes and highlights and bookmarks. And like I thought anesthesia was the coolest thing on the planet again, because you know, I was learning something new and I really loved the chemistry behind it. I loved the biology. I love that you got to touch on different aspects of physiology. Like you didn't have to just know about one body part. We kind of have to know about all of them and how they work together and signs that it's not going well, signs that it is good you know. So in school, absolutely eight slit breeped anesthesia couldn't get enough. I thought it was the coolest thing. This is the best job ever. Six months out I thought, oh my God, I have to go back to school. I can't do this the rest of my life.

Speaker 2:

Really Okay. Wow, I was not expecting you to say that. I think I want to dig in to how that feeling was so certain for you. Like, if I think back on my first six months, I was like fired up and I was like, oh, this is so great and to have such like a visceral, this isn't for me. I know that you're not the only one that has felt that, and so I want to hear some more details about how that feeling came to be. Like, what were your first few jobs like? What was that first experience? Like how did you know that you couldn't do this forever?

Speaker 1:

Right. Actually, right out of school, I started what at the time, was my dream job at Grady in Atlanta. I really wanted to do trauma. I found it fascinating Might be the challenge addict in me and I worked really hard to get that interview because I hadn't rotated there as a student and I was so happy to start there. And within a couple months I realized that I just am not cut out for night shift and flip-flopping shifts. I had a really hard time catching up. I couldn't catch up on sleep. I was always tired. And here I was, you know, 24 single, and I was too tired to go out to do anything. I just wanted to sleep on the weekends and I thought, oh, this is not really what I wanted my 20s to look like. You know, working all week and then sleeping all weekend. So my very good friend was working at University of Colorado. She was actually the first CAA there in 2011. And she said Catherine, I know you just started at Grady, I know you're happy there, but they're hiring at UC and you would absolutely love it here and I really think you should apply. And I had always wanted to live in Colorado, or at least, you know, for a long time. I should say I love the outdoor lifestyle of the active lifestyle Love, skiing, Love all the things about it and I thought, well, I guess I'll just apply and we'll see what happens. I doubt I'm going to get it because I'm barely out of school, Like I had no credentials to my name at the time, like barely any experience. They didn't know me from Adam and I think they honestly gave me the interview as a favor to her because she was having such a hard time At the time. It was very political and it was a very tense workplace and I think they hired me to help her out, but I took it nonetheless. So I took that job. So I changed jobs six months out of school, which is like, not great form, but it was kind of a personal situation I just needed. I felt at the time that I needed a fresh start and I thought this is my chance. And when I went to Denver for the interview I just fell in love. I loved it so much and so I went to University of Colorado. I was the fourth CAA there at the time and the rest of the group. It was a big group, so it was a lot of CRNAs and it was very political, it was stressful, it was not a great work environment. I'll just say that it was a great job. They have amazing cases, amazingly beautiful facility. You could see the mountains and see the sunset over the mountains in the evening. I mean it was just great and I loved everything about Colorado. But it certainly taught me a lot about navigating the political climate as well, which I had previously not been exposed to. I didn't rotate anywhere where it was a big issue, I think, because at the time if it was a big issue they just wouldn't take students. So a lot of the places I went they would talk about the issues, but I didn't experience it personally. And when I experienced it personally, it was very difficult. There was a lot to overcome there.

Speaker 2:

And just to be clear for people who are newer to the CA profession, what we're discussing is the tension that happens oftentimes at the political sphere between CRNAs and CAAs. But then in the personal sphere, when those first CAAs integrate into a new practice, there can be some interpersonal friction, and that's what Catherine's talking about when she went to the University of Colorado. Could you give us just even one example of what that really boots on the ground felt like?

Speaker 1:

Yes, actually I have a very profound example. This one is really memorable and I had someone in my room who was a student at the time. Now he's an amazing anesthetist and good friend and he still, when we reconnected he said I remember that day. That was really rough. One of the things they would not give us breaks. They wouldn't take breaks from us and they would not take report from us. They would have the physician come in the room and it was a little bit theatrical. We would give report to the physician and the physician would give report to the CRNA standing right there. Oh boy, I had one case. It was a pediatric case, which we didn't do often because Denver Children's was right next door, but for some reason we were taking care of this young child. It was a child with some sort of syndrome. He had a very difficult airway. He had a lot of complications going on. It was difficult to manage and the whole case we had spent every second trying to optimize his ventilation. We were having a really hard time ventilating him. We did a bunch of different things. We finally thought we had it figured out and got him into Sats in the mid to high 90s and we were feeling really good about it. And then I was relieved by a CRNA who refused to take report from me and the physician was trying to give her report. But the physician had not been in the room the whole time. While we were doing all these things, trying to optimize this kid, and I was trying to explain look, this is how he does best when this happens. If you do this, it improves it. And she wouldn't listen and my heart just broke. I thought this poor kid. I mean, pardon me, I wanted to just stay. Can I just finish this case Because I'm worried for the kid. I trusted the physician. I trust they're not going to let anything happen to the kid, but it was very frustrating to have worked so hard, done all the right things, really like I was truly trying to advocate for the patient right? I wasn't trying to get anything personally out of this, I just wanted this little kid to do well and I'm sure everything went fine. You know she was able not that she wasn't able to figure it out, it's just that we had already been through all the common things and we found some kind of obscure things to help. So things like that were frustrating because it felt personal, not professional, and I will say it was very few CRNAs who did things like this. Most of them welcomed us with open arms. We're glad you're here. We're happy to figure this out. It was, honestly, maybe three, but when you had to interact with one of those three, it was really just unnecessarily tense and situations like that, where I felt like patient care was in the potential to be compromised, that was frustrating. That particular CRNA left shortly after yeah, which is the story.

Speaker 2:

I feel like that there are a few, you know, call them bad apples that are just so resistant to integration with CAAs and it is personal for them, and then they end up leaving, or they'll leave, right, you know, before we get there. Yeah, and it's just kind of the same old story over and over again.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it just takes time when these things happen, right, because they have never met us before. All they've heard is the CAA propaganda. My own step sister, she started CRNA school. She'd never heard of a CAA and then she came back first semester saying, oh, caas are dumb and they don't know what they're doing and their training is sub. And I was like yo, like I was in school at the time to do this. I was like do you think like this is what I'm doing? Do you know me? You know so there is a lot of propaganda out there and I understand the pressure that they are under. Certainly, when you are under pressure from your own profession and all of your peers to do things a certain way, it's it's hard to stand up against it. But to their credit, I will say, the longer we were there, I think they started to see us as people and it just wasn't worth all the anger, like we could work together, and so I think that it's much better today. Obviously, that was a long time ago and it just takes time. I would say to any you know, if anyone's facing that and they're going into a practice where they're potentially one of the first few CAAs, be patient and don't take it personally and just show up and do your best and kill them with kindness and kill them with skills. You know, like, know your worth and do your thing, and you know you were trained for this. You know that you have the skills to do this, or you wouldn't be here and they will come around. And if they don't come around, they'll leave, like, like you said, that they're either going to accept you or they're going to move on and either way it's going to work out. We just we just have to continue to show up and be the skilled, lovely providers we are, and everyone else will figure it out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Did that early friction taint your experience as a CAA? Like, could you see that? Oh, I really enjoy giving anesthesia if I could just find the right spot Like this it wasn't, you know, Atlanta, it wasn't Colorado or Denver, Right.

Speaker 1:

Actually the friction. It did make me dread going to work some days, but that was not really what contributed to my need for change. I actually left for personal reasons. Right after I accepted the job I met my now husband and so after a year of long distance we decided we needed to be in the same place and he could not work in Colorado. I would have probably stayed in Colorado otherwise and ridden it out, but a year of flying across the country was enough. So I ended up moving back to Atlanta. But the real difficulty for me in University of Colorado and I experienced this, I'm most teaching institutions, I think this is pretty common was the, I'll say, extreme oversight by the physician. I did not feel that I had practice autonomy. I felt that I was constantly being corrected or, you know, over informed. I'll say, you know, I felt like in situations where I knew what I was doing, I had physicians who would quiz me like I was a student, oh boy, and I was like what I mean? And like drill me like really tough questions, and I was like I know how to do this case, but I don't really know why we're doing this right now. You know, I had people that would say, oh, just do this, and then leave the room, and the direction they had given me was absolutely ridiculous and then I would be stuck there and so it was just. I'm sure everyone has experienced this at some time. Right, but it definitely felt like a punch in the gut. When I had spent two years studying anesthesia I had studied so hard, I felt like I was extremely well equipped, knowledge wise. You know, I didn't think I knew everything, but I felt like I could run most cases and I felt like a good provider. And to have that lack of confidence was it was really defeating to me at the time. And that was when I started thinking, you know, I don't know that I can do this for my whole career. I think I expected to have a lot more autonomy and because in school I did, I ran my own cases as a student, and so I thought, shoot, when I'm a practitioner, like I'll be doing the thing you know. And then I got out and realized, oh no, I am taking instruction most of my day and I again don't pretend to know it all. I love working in a care team model, but I expected it to be more of a team than it was, for me, the first couple of years, and so after Denver I went to work for an outpatient group, and I think that's where I found more autonomy.

Speaker 2:

Can you say more on the difference of autonomy, because autonomy is such an important and also nuanced piece of a CAA career and really a CRNA career as well. There are varying levels of autonomy and, number one, knowing what we mean by autonomy, I would love for you to shed some light on that. And then, what were the felt differences of a teaching hospital, which is where you felt like there was a lot of oversight and there was no focus on the private practice or a surgery center type of anesthesia care team, because both are anesthesia care team?

Speaker 1:

Of course. Of course, yeah, I mean, obviously I'm a CAA. I've only ever practiced an anesthesia care team and, to be completely frank, I even if they said CAAs can practice independently, that's. I'm very happy with how things work. But I assume that it would be more of a team-based model, which I'll explain in a little bit. Outpatient or when I worked in private practice, the physician is there for crucial moments and they're, if needed. You know, if you have a difficult patient or you're having a tough time, you can call them and they'll come. Or if you have a question about like hey, I've never used this drug before, I've never done this technique before, could you help walk me through it? They're happy to do it because they know more about it, right, that's kind of the plan. Maybe they do the blocks because I don't do blocks, or you know, whatever the case. But when I was at the teaching hospitals, I felt like, you know, I had physicians who would come in and change my vent settings, change my gas levels, come in and give drugs and not say anything or not. You know, they would just walk in, do something and leave, and to me it felt like that was a statement to my abilities, Like they were telling me oh, I see what you're doing, but that's not right. I know more. I'm just going to change it for you. And I think there's a difference fundamentally in how the care team is viewed in different settings. And I think I just sought a little more, a little more choice in the matter. Right, it's frustrating to feel like you train to do a job but then you only do 10% of what you train to do. Mm-hmm, I don't want to overextend, I don't want to do more than I'm trained to do, but I'd like to at least work to the maximum of my ability or close to it. And autonomy for me, that's what autonomy means to me. I get to make most of the choices. Obviously, there are bigger situations, or difficult patients or difficult cases where you need to work together, but I always wanted it to feel collaborative and not like you know, I was just sitting there taking orders and yes or no, sir, you know I always wanted to have a little bit more say and a little bit more just to use all the things that I learned and I felt like I wasn't really using them because I was just doing what someone else told me to do. And I think after a while that just wore me down and I lost some motivation and you found the autonomy you were looking for.

Speaker 2:

You said you went back to a private practice when you moved back to Georgia. Is that right? And then tell me about your experience at that job.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, I loved it for a long time and then actually there were some issues. The group I worked for ended up dissolving and so I had to find a new job and at that time I had a decision to make because I had an offer from an outpatient group and an offer from a teaching hospital and I recognized in myself that I was losing my skills. I had I barely intubated. I used a total of five drugs, you know, I had nobody was ever sick. I didn't have to navigate these things and I thought it's still pretty early in my career. I think I need to go back to a hospital and also, you know, doing the same thing over and over and over again. It's easy but it does get boring. Like I, you know, I do like to be challenged and so I thought if I go back to a hospital, at least I'll have some challenge and maybe that'll kind of be good for me. And when I did that it was, it was great. I remember coming home and telling my husband we're never moving because I found the best job. I love it here. I loved the people I worked with, I love the surgeons, I love the group, everything was great. And you know, I think for me when I've changed jobs it has been a little bit of a breath of fresh air and it's kind of breathed some new life into my career. But inevitably, you know, after a few years I get maybe it's the itch, I don't know I just feel the need to change scenery a little bit.

Speaker 2:

It sounds like with every job you've kind of been reinvigorated, that like, okay, this was the missing piece and now I found it and like I'm hearing that there's maybe just been an essential misalignment, perhaps with who you truly are authentically. And then the professional responsibilities, or just like what it means to giving a seizure or work as a CAA. Do you agree with that, like, do you think you just hadn't found the right spot or do you think that there was just something more that you needed to do in addition to being a CAA?

Speaker 1:

That's incredibly insightful of you to say, and I wish you could have told me that, like you know, 12 years ago. I think. I look back and I regret nothing. This job has been so wonderful in so many ways, and I'm sure we'll talk about that more like what that means to me today, part of what I've learned about myself, and this is just through the years, right, you get to know yourself better as you get older and you go through life experiences. I thrive when I am being challenged. I love learning new things, and when I started anesthesia, I remember thinking this will be perfect because new drugs are going to come out, new techniques are going to come out, and what I've learned since then is that, you know, someone told me the other day it takes an average of 12 years for a new technique to be incorporated into practice in our field, and so that quick change learning experience I thought I was going to have is not really the case, and so I appreciate what we do, and there are parts of it that I really enjoy, and I've really enjoyed getting to know about all the body systems and the way that we get to see them and experience them. But I know at this point in my life that I just I do. I need more. I need to feel challenged, to be fulfilled, and I also need a little bit of creativity, and that's just something that can complement other things I'm doing. And if I have a little bit of that, a little more challenge, a little bit of learning and a little bit of creativity, I feel more professionally fulfilled. And so I don't begrudge anything I did. If I hadn't done this profession, I wouldn't have my husband, I wouldn't have my children, I don't know where I would be, in addition to all the amazing things that this career has provided for me. But I do know that it is not the end, all be all for me. There is more that I will do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I do think there are a lot of CAAs listening who maybe feels very similar to you, like feel exactly the way you feel, or feel a small piece of what you're feeling. Like I wish I could incorporate more creativity into my life, be that through the CAA profession or something adjacent, and figuring out what those things are that you need to add or subtract in my experience is very, very challenging, very difficult, I wouldn't say. There's a lot of people who are openly talking about this. How to hold this tension of like I love this part but I don't love this part and I want to do this but now I can't do that, and some of that is adulthood, like you can't have it all potentially, but figuring out how to use the CAA career to really leverage it, to get the good things from it and get the fulfillment from it, and then also use it as a launching point to take some risks and to try some new things and be like I could always go back to this thing giving in a seizure that I really do love. Maybe I don't want to do only this for 40 hours a week for the rest of my life, but like that is such a beautiful gift that I think the CAA profession allows for us, and I'm just wondering how that played out in your life, like how did you figure out, what were the next things, what did you try? What didn't work, what failed? Can you give us a little insight on that process?

Speaker 1:

Absolutely so. I think it all started really when I had the outpatient job, because I would get done at 11 am, 1 pm and I had no kids. I had all the time in the world, I had expendable income, I had so much freedom and I just started exploring things. And you know, is back when blogs were cool, I started a blog. Then I taught myself photography. I thought maybe I'll do portrait photography. You know, that was that creative aspect that I felt was missing and I just loved being able to deep dive into something. I would go home and I would just spend hours like reading books and blogs and try testing it out, walking around the neighborhood and testing out different techniques, and I really enjoyed it and I love just like diving into something like that. What else? Oh, I tried to learn how to code. I tried, you know. I thought, oh, I'll build an app and I would get up at 4 am and spend like an hour on this coding academy thing before I went to work and try it out. And you know, some of these things were great and I really loved doing them and some of them, like the coding I tried for months and I just thought, oh my gosh, this. Just my brain does not work this way. Like this is not it for me, but like what you're saying, if I had had a regular job, you know a lot of America spends from 8 am to 6 pm at their job. Then they come home, eat dinner and then they get back on their computer and they're expected to always be online and they have two weeks of vacation and you know that they don't take and all of these things. I never would have been able to explore this stuff. So being able to have the free time and the financial means to explore right like camera equipment is expensive. A coding class was expensive. If I was really living paycheck to paycheck, I wouldn't be able to do these things. The furthest I took a business idea was designing a baby carrier, and I did that while I had two kids at home and I was still working. And the reason I could do it is because during the pandemic we weren't spending any money and I had this savings built up and I thought, well, let me see how far I can take this with what I have in the bank and I was able to work part time. So on my days off I could do, you know, go meet with manufacturers or go to the fabric store to test out fabrics and do all these things and I created a whole business while I was working and parenting two kids. I mean that is not an option for so many people in America. I have so many friends who would love to pursue these dreams but they have no ability to step down a little bit from their job. They either have their full time job or they have no job. And it is so cool that we can go. You can go down to working one day a month if you want to and maintain your license and maintain your credentials somewhere. If you'll find someone that wants to hire you for one day a month, I guess I should say, and if you decide you want to go back to it, you just pick it back up again. I mean now I work 1099. And so I say when I work and I can arrange my schedule around other things I need, and that is so rare. I mean we are so fortunate in that sense that if you do identify that something is missing and you are professionally unfulfilled or personally unfulfilled and you can identify what it is or you can identify some things that you'd like to try to see if it's that missing piece. You can do it. You can stack your schedule even if you're full time. I mean you can work longer shifts to have a couple of days off a week. You can take vacation time. Most of us get anywhere from four to seven upwards weeks of vacation. You can take a week of vacation and go to a retreat or go to a class or you can do so many things. But it takes the courage and self-awareness to identify that something is missing and that, potentially, if you are unhappy or unfulfilled in your job, to know that you can go try something else and the follow through to go do it right, to put the money down on that class or to take the time and designate it. I'm missing creativity in my life. I would really love to paint. Okay, cool, you need to block your calendar and say this is my day off. Work for the week. Okay, every Thursday, say I'm going to spend six hours painting and maybe you love it, maybe you don't. But to not take advantage of that opportunity. If you know something's missing, you kind of owe it to yourself and I'll say I'll even go as far as to say you owe it to your patients and your coworkers to explore that, because if you're miserable, I guarantee you it's coming out other places and other people are affected by it. So I think we might as well take advantage of this flexibility that we have to explore other parts of ourself and maybe you change careers and maybe you don't. Maybe that just fills the missing piece and you continue doing anesthesia and you're happier because you're exploring the other side of yourself. But you have to at least try.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and hearing another CAA story and journey. Doing that, I think, is also one of the missing pieces. Like it is really helpful to hear a CAA verbalize this tightrope walk between doing the thing that kind of was expected or maybe that you thought it was going to be, and then navigating, taking this to a new place, because oftentimes there can be some shame or like some, oh, I'm going to appear ungrateful or I'm going to appear selfish or like I want so much, and I just love that your story is an example of how to navigate that tightrope. And so I know that your rope has led you to Scopa Health, which is a tech platform that is linking employers and anesthesia employees. So I would love to hear a little bit about developing Scopa Health and where you are with that project today, and then how that is impacting your careers at CAA and like what your maybe long term plan with Scopa Health and working as a CAA.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I love talking about this. So I did my various explorations and for years I have just been enamored with the tech startup world. I just I love the energy around it. I love the sense that you can go improve anything right, you identify a problem, you identify a pain point and then you go create the solution, and that just speaks to my soul. That is what I love to do, and so I knew that I just really loved this world. I obviously couldn't be a coder, I thought I'm not going to build anything, but let me go just be around this and see what other people are doing and how they do it. And that led me to get more and more involved in the tech startup community in Atlanta, which is very healthy, very cool, growing community. And I met some other people who were previous medical professionals, who turned into tech entrepreneurs and built platforms, built businesses, and when you see something and it just clicks, I was like this this is the thing that I want to do, and other people will say they can tell when I start talking about it, I get really excited, like I get really animated and it's like I go up 10 levels and I know it stokes my fire, like I feel more energetic and alive and excited when I'm talking about it, doing it, working on it, and so, after being exposed to these other companies, I would see what they were doing and really the take home message was like find something that is causing people pain and then solve that pain. I started talking to people leadership at the groups I worked with and saying what are your current challenges, what are you having hard time with? And the thing that I kept hearing was staffing. And this was before. Like staffing was really a well known issue. I think people were just starting to feel it Like we just can't hire people, like it used to be really easy and we can't find people. And then you know we work with recruiters and the recruiters give us candidates that aren't actually a good fit. And you know the agencies like they're great but like we can't keep using them forever. They're so expensive. So this was the issue that I kept hearing. And then, on the flip side, I worked at the teaching hospital and my coworkers would say, hey, catherine, you have PRN jobs, right. Like how do I get one? How do I find these people? Like, who do I call? Do you have a number I can call, do you have a contact or something? And I thought this is absolute bananas. You have the group on this side that is desperate to hire people, even to the point where they had to give up contracts because they couldn't hire enough people to staff the centers that wanted to hire them to provide anesthesia. So they're losing a ton of money. They want to make sure they have good people. They're really struggling to find them. And then over here you have this pile of people who are like hey, I want to work for a group like that, how do I get in touch with them? And from that, you know, obviously it always grows right, like that's where it started. Like I'm going to talk to A and figure out what A needs and I'm going to talk to B and see what B wants and then if B wants the thing that A needs, well, like, let's just put them in touch. Right, like it's not, it really doesn't have to be that complicated. We don't need all these frills and middlemen and all this. Like, just talk to each other. You want the job, you're offering the job, you'd be a great fit. There you go. And so I thought I have an opportunity here to create something awesome for my people. I still I feel like Army buddies with healthcare providers. We have been through it together, especially the people that I worked with during the pandemic. I honestly feel like we have been in the trenches together and it is just a unique bond. A really cool quote from a triathlete said there's no bond quite like the people who you suffer with, and I think that is so accurate, right, and so that is what we have built and we just released the beta of the app and very excited about it and thank you, and we're just trying to build something that's going to foster connection. And I think there's also a lot of healing that needs to be done between employees and employers. You know a lot of people feel at war with their employer and you know there's a disagreement on what they should be paid and how they should be scheduled and all these things. And I think if you can just talk to them directly from the start, you build a stronger relationship and that is what leads to a long-term relationship. Maybe you don't work for them forever, maybe you work for them on and off, maybe you work full-time, then you do PRN or vice versa, but let's have people build strong relationships with their employer, with their coworkers. That has been shown time and time again to lead to genuine, lasting happiness. And you know, studies coming out show that our workplace is the majority of our social connection nowadays, because we work so much. And so let's make that meaningful. And that's really the goal is to make the job search and placement experience positive for everybody, right, make it an enjoyable experience. I named the company Scopa as a combination between Scopa of Practice and CopaCetic and CopaCetic. The definition is extremely satisfactory and I thought the job search experience right now is so awful. If I can just make it satisfactory, we've won the battle. Right, let's just make it good. That's what we're aiming for, because the bar, I think, right now is so low. Like the burden to find the jobs is on the provider. They have to scan job boards, they have to go figure it out, they have to ask around and really the provider is the commodity. There is no reason that we should have to spend so much time looking for a job because there are so many jobs that are looking for us. So by putting the provider's needs first and saying, hey, tell us what you want and we're only going to send you offers if they match what you're looking for. We're not going to spam you. We're not going to send you text messages, phone calls, you know emails with all these jobs that are not relevant to you. Literally, tell us what you want and if we find it, we'll connect them to you, and it's that simple.

Speaker 2:

That's really exciting and I also am, you know, personally experiencing some of these issues and, you know, as my needs evolve, I'm trying to find that more evolved career alignment and I still want to give anesthesia in the operating room. But, like, finding a place that needs what I want and vice versa is tricky. And, yes, I'm really excited about the landscape change that hopefully Scopa Health is going to be creating and a part of. I actually just heard a podcast by Anastasiology News talking about the staffing shortage, which I, you know, of course, I think everyone kind of has heard, but like to really understand the whys and hows, and this podcast was saying that one of the solutions is having the employer and the employee communicate directly with each other. Just as you're saying to talk about alternative shifts. You know that the employees anesthesia employees are really looking for alternative shift options and that employers need to be more flexible in their thinking of what will work for them. And then, you know, having a conversation so that everyone's needs can get met, more met maybe. And yeah, just was really interesting. I literally just listened to that before I jumped on with you. So I'm interested and excited for you because it sounds like you're right. You know where you need to be, and I'm wondering, now that you I can tell how excited you are with Scopa and I can tell how much it fulfills you I'm wondering what you think about being a CAA and continuing work as a CAA. What does your day to day look like when you're working for Scopa Health versus working as a CAA?

Speaker 1:

Oh man, I feel like Bruce Wayne and Batman. I have two completely different identities. On the days that I'm working clinically, it's scrubs and hat and sitting in an OR, and then I spin around and get dressed in a suit and do my hair and makeup like a real person and go into the tech village which is where my pre-accelerator has been and where I'll be continuing to work out of for a little while and we talk, you know, recurring revenue and different business models and serving our clients and customer discovery, and it's like a whole different language, honestly. And I find myself crossing sometimes, like I'll be using medical jargon in front of tech people and vice versa, and they're like wait, what, what is that Like? Oh right, sorry, let me switch, and it's you know. I think I find that when I am working clinically, I am thinking about my business a lot and so I know that that's where my future goals lie, or to be able to dedicate more time to that. And it's funny when I think about when I'm at work. Honestly, sometimes clinical work is a little bit of a breather because I'm just you just have one patient to take care of, whereas in building a business, there are always 150 things on my to-do list and I've never done, and I've never done enough, and there's always something else, and so in a sense, it is a little relaxing. But it is difficult when I feel so drawn to the business and I am so excited to give time to it, and so I would like to give more time to it, and I hope that that is what my near future holds. I don't know if I will ever leave clinical practice entirely. Maybe. I think you know what, if I was just doing it once a month to maintain my license, it would be really fun. Like I mean, if you took an average person off the street and you're like, hey, you want to go give people a bunch of drugs and like see what happens, they'd be like, yeah and oh, you get to watch surgery while you're doing it. And they're like, yeah, and they're like oh, by the way, you get to wear pajamas the whole day and we're going to provide them for you. And you're like, yes, you know, like I think about that and I think, well, like what if I just did it? And it was like fun, right, like if it wasn't. When it changes from being a half to to pay the bills to being a get to thing like that would be pretty sweet, like it would be like a little adventure and a little like oh yeah, this is this other side of me, so I really don't know. I'm very open to what the future holds and I really have practiced finding the best part of every aspect of my life, even the parts that are frustrating or draining or tiring, and that includes, like personal life too, right, like sometimes, your kids. Just I just want to scream and exit the building and not come back for an hour. Same thing, girl, so right. But I also feel so lucky to be holding that kid while they're having a tantrum, like I, this is what I wanted in life and it's the same with anesthesia. I wanted a career in medicine and I wanted to have a visible impact on my patients and I have that, and I've had the opportunity to take care of people in some really vulnerable moments and I don't discount that. And I do think that my career still holds a few transitions, but I'm grateful for every single piece of it along the way and I hope that my story can inspire other people to not be scared to try something different, but, like, maybe take a step back and think well, what is it? What would I be doing if I didn't have to make money? What would I like to do today? You know, if I got the whole next week off? What things would I choose to do If I inherited $50 million? What things would I choose to do and then realize that you have won the lottery already? You have inherited it. You know you have financial freedom, schedule flexibility and so much control over how much you work. You can go part time, you can go PRN, you can do low-gums. I know someone who works one week a month low-gums and then has the rest of the month to do whatever he wants, because he makes the same amount as he used to working full-time. You have so many options and so many people don't have that, and so use that to like go try that thing. Go do it, because you have the freedom to do it, and I get that everyone has different constraints on their time. But if you're really honest with yourself, you can probably find a little bit of time to carve out, to explore some passions and see if there's something else that you can do and complement to what you're doing, to just round you out as a person and really make you feel fulfilled.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I couldn't agree more. I feel like my last I don't know eight years has been. You just condensed my journey as well about all of that work really to understand what I want Like if there were no holds on my time or my finances or all of the other things, what would I want to do? And then using the privileged position as a CAA to start incorporating some of those things. And I think your story is so expansive. It gives so many little guideposts if people are listening closely on things you can do to put more of who you are into your life, and you also may be listening and be like I'm totally fulfilled as a CAA and I just want to call out that that's wonderful. That means you're doing exactly what's meant for you, and there are so few people in this world who get the privilege of living the life that is uniquely meant for them, and I know that CAAs are just this little, private, privileged group of individuals that we all have that ability, and so I'm so grateful to hear your story, catherine, and I'm so excited for you and for the future of Scopa Health and you living the life that's uniquely meant for you. I'm wondering if you'd like to share the best place for CAAs, who I know are going to have follow-up questions for you personally. And then, if people are interested in joining Scopa Health, how would they get on the app or the website?

Speaker 1:

Yes, thank you. You can reach out to me directly. My email address is Catherine at ScopaHealthcom, and my name, catherine, is spelled the 80s way K-A-T-H-R-Y-N at ScopaHealthcom, and now you know exactly how old I am and you can check out ScopaHealthcom. We currently our app is a web-based app, so you can go to the URL appScopaHealthcom and you can create a provider profile. You tell us what you're looking for. We are still in the building phases, so I appreciate everyone's patience If you don't get a ton of job offers right away, but we are expanding throughout the next year. We expect to have a lot more providers and employers on the page, so go ahead and fill your profile out now. We also have some exciting events coming up, including an in-person event in Atlanta, so go ahead and sign up and you'll get invites to that. And as we create them in new places, we will share those with you as well, and we also share resources. So if you have questions, let us know. If you would like to see some guidance on one topic, please email me. Give us feedback through the site. We are building this for you, so help me make it the best thing that can help you find the best job and the best opportunities.

Speaker 2:

Wonderful, awesome. I have a feeling you're going to get a lot of follow-up questions, catherine, so I really appreciate you sharing that and, again, I'm really grateful for you tackling this really nuanced and personal conversation and I'm so excited to get this out to our CAA community. So thank you again and we'll talk soon, looking forward to it. Oh, my goodness, I hope you appreciated that episode as much as I did. Catherine shared that one of the themes that she hopes people take away from this episode is that there's value to be learned on every step of your journey and no matter how much time or money you've invested in something, if you're not happy, you deserve to look elsewhere to find happiness, and I just know how valuable it is to hear a CAA giving voice to this perspective that I know she's not alone in. Catherine knows she's not alone in where people are maybe a little dismayed or a lot of it dismayed with their profession and, in particular, their CAA career, and are feeling helpless or hopeless and don't know if they should leave or if they could leave. And Catherine's journey really gives permission to all those people that it's never too late to choose yourself, it's never too late to start over and that, little by little, you can start putting the pieces together to live your life by design, and Catherine and I really agree on that. So I hope you loved this episode. If you want to follow up with Catherine, tell her your thoughts. I know that she would appreciate the encouragement. I've signed up for Scopa Health myself and I'm looking to do some locums maybe work in the future. So I just think it's really interesting the synergy that's happening through this podcast and the connections that are being made. If you want to further those connections, two things you can do are to rate and review this podcast on whatever platform you're listening right now, and the second is to share this episode with one of your CAA colleagues or a fellow AA student and tell them why you think they love it. In the next 15 episodes you can connect further with me on Instagram at AwakendAnesthetist. I hope to talk soon.

Speaker 1:

So good, oh, so much better, so much better, so much better.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's permission giving. I mean, I just think this was the conversation I wish I had found eight years ago, and potentially you feel the same, where it's like, yeah, you can do that, we're allowed to say we have the most beautiful career in the whole wide world, and also I want something else, Like okay, yes, yes.

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Mary Jeanne Roberts, CAA

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